US Protests - How do you think it's going to end

Status
Not open for further replies.
Even if I swallowed the pill and believed in all of the stolen election crap, as soon as I arrived at the party and saw who else was there, I'd nope right the F out. I wouldn't want to rub shoulders with many of the attendees at that protest.

To stay means you are A-OK with what they stand for.
So your convictions are based solely on whom else has those exact same convictions? Really? I'm surprised, but starting to think I shouldn't be...

Not all Republicans are racist, that's a fact. But a lot are.

This left/right stuff is all BS. There is simply what's right and what's wrong in any civilised society. Obviously what happened yesterday is very wrong.
My point would be that racists don't like being called out as being one.

Rush is correct and racism will never go away if we pretend it doesn't exist.

He could have said the same thing about the Dems and he would have been equally correct. The point of discussion though was the racists in the Republican party who attacked the Democracy yesterday.
That is in fact the first time I have ever heard someone who identifies as a liberal Democrat say that there are in fact racist Democrats... pendulum swings back...
 
Ok, just getting off work and about to try relaxing before going to work, so I'm out... I hope everyone here realizes nothing said here will ever make any difference, except to each other, and likely not that from what I have seen thus far.

I think I'm just done here... everyone knows everything already, so why try to argue the finer points? Have fun beating your heads against the wall.

EDIT:
ok, that was asinine... to drop possibly inflammatory posts then bail is not cool in the extreme. That said, I'll be watching, if not participating, until someone says something different. Roast away, I have high %Fire Resistance.
 
Last edited:
Whether it makes a difference or not, this is still one of the rapidly shrinking number of places where an actual discussion like this can freely take place. Which quite frankly should be very troubling to everyone, U.S. citizen or not. One of the surest signs that you're no longer living in a free society is when you're not allowed to question your own government.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leopold Stotch
That is in fact the first time I have ever heard someone who identifies as a liberal Democrat say that there are in fact racist Democrats... pendulum swings back...
A Liberal Democrat? Not even close. I'm a conservative.
 
Just a point: we haven't had a Democracy in... just over 150years. The US is a Republic. The last vestigial remains of democracy is in fact what was supposed to discussed yesterday, and then a protest happened...
I typed Republic several times but every time I did, the word "Banana" popped up in front. Think I might need a new keyboard.
 
A democracy cannot really be compared with a republic. The first is a way of decision making, the second a political system which distributed parts of their stately power position by plebiscites while the other people with stately power are chosen by them. A political system in which everything is directly decided by plebiscits will turn into a tyranny sooner or later because of dumb or selfish people or those with certain other character flaws. The first charismatic leader with too little noble motives will turn it into one by making himself the undisputed kind of King.

Having a democracy isn't enough though. You need separation of power, so the powerful watch over each other, else somebody will come sooner or later who will refuse to give up his power after they are to resign or be abdicted. That's what Trump just tried. In a country like Belarus, he might have been successful. He failed in the US because separation of power worked well enough, but the more unrest is involved, the greater the danger of its failure is. I guess with more stratagical thinking and political instinct, somebody like Trump would have been a greater threat.

Regarding the waving of flags, I don't give a shit. Having a flag with you doesn't mean that you have a valid point. All it means is that you claim the right of being a good American, no matter what nonsense you are propagating or doing. I'm pretty wary of people who want to stress their point by carrying a flag, it might mean that they don't have enough facts and reason on their side, so they might try to stupefy you by appealing to your patriotism (which is just a feeling BTW, not a fact or argument). Who was it who said that if tyranny comes over the US, it will be covered in the star-spangled banner?

I'm fine with people flying the flag on the national holiday and similar occurrences, but all the time and whereever you go? That's silly, if not worrying.
 
  • Like
Reactions: D2DC
Having a democracy isn't enough though. You need separation of power, so the powerful watch over each other, else somebody will come sooner or later who will refuse to give up his power after they are to resign or be abdicted. That's what Trump just tried.
No, he didn't. Let me ask you something. If you were in an election and genuinely believed that your opponent cheated, would you not use every legal avenue available to you to contest the results? Or would you just shut up and do what you're told by your opponent?

That's what happened here. Trump had every right to contest the results. He had every right to question and bring it to court, and when the courts wouldn't listen, the legislators who also questioned the results had every right (and I would argue duty as well) to object to those results being accepted.

When that ultimately failed, Trump accepted defeat. He did not concede, nor should he, and I would hold anyone who genuinely believes they were cheated to that same standard regardless of affiliation. But when all legal avenues were exhausted, he stepped down. He did exactly what he was supposed to do, constitutionally, legally and morally. The people in the wrong on this one are those who stormed the capital building along with those denigrating, de-platforming and demanding that Trump and his supporters face criminal charges for the crime of having a different opinion. Those are the people launching a full scale assault on democracy. Not Trump.

One other note on this subject. It's quite interesting how we were being told over and over again for the past year that we may not actually know the real results of this election for at least six months or more after it was over. Trump just couldn't be trusted not to cheat and it's going to take numerous investigations to uncover the true election results. We'll probably have to object to the results just like we did in 2016, 2004, and 2000, even though our only evidence back then was dimpled chads and a theory that maybe Russia hacked the results.

But then a miracle happened. The very instant Biden pulled ahead, election fraud ceased to exist. That was the fact check by the way. If you clicked on those little "fact check" buttons in November, the "fact" was "Election fraud doesn't happen in the U.S." Biden won, game over, we haven't even finished the fist round of counting yet but Biden won. Trump should just leave the White House right now because the people have spoken and the result is undeniable. No need to look any further into it because it's the most secure and unquestionable election in history.
 
I don't think he did it on purpose. As you said, he just believes it, but it isn't so. That's enough for a narcissist to do what's possible to enforce his belief on others. As I wrote, the US had enough stability to deal with it. There probably were a few dubious issues (there always are), but these involve both parties and even if just those were true which could involve the Democrats, it wouldn't be enough for a turn of the result.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Leopold Stotch
Make no mistake. What Trump did was not legal. It was an attempted coup. The legal route didn't work for him because there was no provable fraud that the courts could rule on so he choose the illegal route. A coup.

Instead of using tanks, he used different weapons, his MAGAs. He told them to march on the Capitol and he would be there beside them. His lawyer told the crowds that this would be a trial of combat. His son told the crowds to fight.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Elly
If that's true, then his son (and others) started a riot while Trump himself appeared as directly uninvolved. With other words, Trump will probably get away with most of it in a courtroom while his son... well, when assuming that it can be proven in a courtroom, what's the usual penalty for incitement to rioting? I'm pretty sure that freedom of speech doesn't go that far even in the US, correct?

I don't think it was a coup. That would need more planning, like how to occupy the positions of power with whom etc. It was certainly a riot, however. Not just one of rage about some seemingly unjust event, but against a central institution of the US. If reason cannot bring those madmen back to senses and reason, then it has to be punishment and fear of punishment. That's one of the reasons why we have penalties.

e5354340-6441-41a8-906d-4bce6104eced_w920_r1.4285714285714286_fpx46.2_fpy50.jpg


"Good grief, what happened to her?!"
"Four years of Trump!"
 
It was Trump that told his followers to march on the Capitol. He wound up the crowd by telling them that the election was stolen and then directed his troops to Hill.

"So we are going to--we are going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, I love Pennsylvania Avenue, and we are going to the Capitol, and we are going to try and give--the Democrats are hopeless, they are never voting for anything, not even one vote but we are going to try--give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don't need any of our help, we're try--going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue."

If he didn't say those words. The Capitol would not have been invaded.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rush
It was Trump that told his followers to march on the Capitol. He wound up the crowd by telling them that the election was stolen and then directed his troops to Hill.

"So we are going to--we are going to walk down Pennsylvania Avenue, I love Pennsylvania Avenue, and we are going to the Capitol, and we are going to try and give--the Democrats are hopeless, they are never voting for anything, not even one vote but we are going to try--give our Republicans, the weak ones because the strong ones don't need any of our help, we're try--going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue."

If he didn't say those words. The Capitol would not have been invaded.
That and he said that he would be there with them, but wasn't.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Rush
That is in fact the first time I have ever heard someone who identifies as a liberal Democrat say that there are in fact racist Democrats... pendulum swings back...

As someone who does in fact identify as a bleeding heart liberal Democrat.... Uh, duh? 🤣 Dems aren't saints lol!

If that's true, then his son (and others) started a riot while Trump himself appeared as directly uninvolved. With other words, Trump will probably get away with most of it in a courtroom while his son... well, when assuming that it can be proven in a courtroom, what's the usual penalty for incitement to rioting? I'm pretty sure that freedom of speech doesn't go that far even in the US, correct?

e5354340-6441-41a8-906d-4bce6104eced_w920_r1.4285714285714286_fpx46.2_fpy50.jpg


"Good grief, what happened to her?!"
"Four years of Trump!"

No. You can say some of the most racist, hateful, vile crap and you won't be prosecuted. You might be banned on Twitter, but you won't go to jail. Inciting danger or fear you can be tried for that (can't yell fire in a movie theater if there's no fire, for example)

Ohh that picture breaks my heart. 😟
 
A Liberal Democrat? Not even close. I'm a conservative.
I typed Republic several times but every time I did, the word "Banana" popped up in front. Think I might need a new keyboard.
Ah, derision and sarcasm, how did I ever think this was an unproductive dialogue?
Pretty sad when I've had better, more open discussion about a topic ON FACEBOOK, than on a forum with people I used to think where a bit open to opinions other than thier own...

EDIT:
Make that "a couple persons" instead of "people"... I mean no disrespect to Glurin, Kris, Leo, and Gorny, who have all been at least not blatantly disrespectful

A democracy cannot really be compared with a republic. The first is a way of decision making, the second a political system which distributed parts of their stately power position by plebiscites while the other people with stately power are chosen by them. A political system in which everything is directly decided by plebiscits will turn into a tyranny sooner or later because of dumb or selfish people or those with certain other character flaws. The first charismatic leader with too little noble motives will turn it into one by making himself the undisputed kind of King.

Having a democracy isn't enough though. You need separation of power, so the powerful watch over each other, else somebody will come sooner or later who will refuse to give up his power after they are to resign or be abdicted. That's what Trump just tried. In a country like Belarus, he might have been successful. He failed in the US because separation of power worked well enough, but the more unrest is involved, the greater the danger of its failure is. I guess with more stratagical thinking and political instinct, somebody like Trump would have been a greater threat.

Regarding the waving of flags, I don't give a shit. Having a flag with you doesn't mean that you have a valid point. All it means is that you claim the right of being a good American, no matter what nonsense you are propagating or doing. I'm pretty wary of people who want to stress their point by carrying a flag, it might mean that they don't have enough facts and reason on their side, so they might try to stupefy you by appealing to your patriotism (which is just a feeling BTW, not a fact or argument). Who was it who said that if tyranny comes over the US, it will be covered in the star-spangled banner?

I'm fine with people flying the flag on the national holiday and similar occurrences, but all the time and whereever you go? That's silly, if not worrying.
Lol... "you cannot compare a Republic to a Democracy" *proceeds to write a direct comparison* ... sorry kris, you walked right into that one.

Otherwise, you do realize what you describe there is pretty much the US, what with electoral college and all. Not that I'm totally against it, as otherwise you could just hold elections in 5 metropolis', and the entire remainder of the nation could essentially piss off. Also the average citizen doesn't even think about what's best for the nation, just what's best for themselves, and someone who has lived in New York, New York all thier life has no idea what concerns the average citizen of Fargo, North Dakota, and vice-versa. Some balance to that isn't horrible, but I think we could definitely do away with representatives being able to vote contrary to what the people they supposedly represent voted.

Otherwise, I'm in total agreement with this post.

As someone who does in fact identify as a bleeding heart liberal Democrat.... Uh, duh? 🤣 Dems aren't saints lol!



No. You can say some of the most racist, hateful, vile crap and you won't be prosecuted. You might be banned on Twitter, but you won't go to jail. Inciting danger or fear you can be tried for that.

Ohh that picture breaks my heart. 😟
Make that twice I've heard/read that, then... yes, I'm being completely serious. :|

EDIT:
Please do not misunderstand, there is a great difference between knowing a thing, and hearing/reading from the person that identifies with the group it relates to.
 
Last edited:
Ah, derision and sarcasm, how did I ever think this was an unproductive dialogue?
Pretty sad when I've had better, more open discussion about a topic ON FACEBOOK, than on a forum with people I used to think where a bit open to opinions other than thier own...
If the banana fits...stick it in!

And there was zero sarcasm intended when I said that I am a conservative.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
PurePremium
Estimated market value
Low
High